For this meeting I primarily wanted to just do some start doing some planning for the in person meeting and doing like an education proposal for the in person meeting and seeing like kind of getting a poll of what ideas seem the best to everyone in the community, and who would want to be involved in helping to either plan the plan the plan the session or even like be part of the session like be one of the speakers. So thanks everyone for joining. You know I know I know Sarah Cleo and Dr. Fred and then I just met Heather, and then Michael good to meet you as well. You know, I first want to just start out and talk about some of the ideas that we had gathered before, and kind of in, in order of which ones I thought were the most feasible and maybe the most pertinent and get you guys thoughts on which idea or ideas to pursue. So the first one is kind of is another one of those like a panel of physicians covering different levels of sports. And that way we can have like a panel q amp a, and they each one of these people can talk about the good and the bad to each level, and kind of like how you get involved in it, and all that. And then the second idea was how to prove our worth as sports medicine physiatrist. I think this is getting really really pertinent the more on how you guys have how much you guys been keeping up with like the whole MBA situation and, you know, a P and R trying to make a collective effort. The fact that we got excluded from from that document was a pretty big deal and it might lead some precedence to. Hey. Hey, sorry. Were you saying something. Oh, a couple years ago we kind of covered the, you know, what it means to work at different levels. So, you know, we talked about team physician, you know, Olympic sports things like that. Do you think that it would be too soon to do that again or it would did that session seem pretty well attended and maybe good to redo. You know it was coven so it's hard for me to remember it was all virtual there. Yeah, I mean I think we could come up with something more novel. Okay, sounds good. The, the last like main idea was the cutting edge treatments to like, like that sports medicine physiatrist really bring along like Botox regenerative medicine, a lot of the different ultrasound guided procedures we do like 10x and 10 jet. And I know, Charlie Kenyon who is a current fellow at Emory and he helps run the, the current and future sports medicine fellows community. He said he was open to doing any sort of collaboration in terms of education session if we wanted to as well. So those are the three main ideas on the table right now and then, you know, I'll leave the floor open for any of you guys to say like, which, which ideas you guys would lean toward or if there any additional ideas that you guys may want to pursue for this proposal of an education session. So, can you repeat those again the three. Yeah, the first one is that panel. The second one is how to prove our worth as sports medicine physiatrist. And the last one is the cutting edge treatments. You know, the other one which we've done it to a smaller degree at some of these conferences but it's really just a career path in sports medicine. And, you know, have people who've gone at different levels. So not so much talking about the different injuries or sideline coverage, which we had done in the past but more. How do you pursue these different career paths. How do you attract a wide audience because then you're going to get, you know, residents, potentially even medical students. Excellent. That could even be something like, I don't know Donald if you remember, a P, they did a session that was Olympic based, but I wonder about doing something similar to that in terms of having people kind of tell their stories and how the tidbits about how they got to those places through different routes, we could do, you know, collegiate Olympic pro level. And then you know just community based. And then even just, you know, private establishing yourself in the community, really, you know, high school but even just establishing community kind of presence. Yeah. I think, I think that's a great idea and I guess just to clarify Dr Fred so previously the panel physicians they talked more about the actual injuries they dealt with rather than how they got there. Is that correct. Um, yeah, I think it was more about that. Yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't so much how they got. Yeah. I know I would Monica was on it I was on it. Mark Ellen had organized that one. Okay. I think, I think this would not if we if we take that approach I don't think that will be repetitive. Okay, no, and I, I really like that idea in general I was leaning toward the first one anyways. Does anyone else have like any, any thoughts about pursuing one of the different ones or are they pretty happy is everyone pretty happy with that idea of the career paths to each level. I guess it kind of what I like about it is that we can then address sort of what it takes to work at the pro level and why there have been concerns about physiatrists working with some of the professional teams, and how to address that, you know, from a training perspective. Sure. I would almost even build that third topic that you discussed about the procedures into that as well because there are a lot of people that do fellowship training but then don't continue on with team coverage and but they build a career very much just on on procedures so even having people that do that pathway for their career. And then also like have different levels and then also have people who are primarily like clinic musculoskeletally clinic based rather than team coverage. Correct. Yeah. Like that idea. Um, I guess in terms of actually like delineating the different levels. So we had mentioned like community base, then that would include like, like, I guess community high school and then collegiate and then professional and then Olympics. I know adaptive sports have been like a very hot topic. Do you guys think that it would be more prudent to have like adaptive sports as a separate thing or maybe say like Olympic slash Paralympic, or what are your thoughts on that. I think potentially having folks speak on Paralympics might make sense and I know that was one of the topics AP is having several folks who are doing Paralympic coverage. But it could also be people who are doing community as well. I mean, could also be folks who work in the VA or that sort of thing too. Yeah. I guess, aside from the levels I had just listed are there any other levels you guys can think of that would would be good to have within that panel. I think that covers it really. Oh yeah I was gonna say I mean we cover as far as the vertical aspect of it. As far as like you know more the the breadth of it so you're going to have some communities that are a little more affluent versus some communities that might be socially economically challenged so you can talk about from those perspectives, how you covering how you are able to assist communities might be a little different. But even sometimes at a collegiate level you have much smaller collegiate athletics, like D3 where they're not going to have as much as opposed to, you know, the powerhouse D1 where they're going to have a lot more resources but a lot more expectations as well. That makes a lot of sense. And then I guess even within like Olympics and Paralympics, not all the Olympic and Paralympic teams are created equal in terms of how much, how much support they have so definitely within each one of those we have a lot of horizontal breadth to cover. Now, you know, we have a pretty big base here. Yeah. I know that the education sessions, I believe they're usually like an hour, an hour and a half. I know like when you get a panel. The panel can, you know, if you have too many people on the panel then nobody gets to talk. So, what do y'all think in terms of like a good number within a panel. I think four or five is probably the max. The only problem with that was thinking. I guess the problem with that is like we have to be really selective in terms of, you know, which one of these levels we can cover with only four or five panelists, unless we have some panelists to cover multiple of these levels. I think to some extent there will be some overlap because I think those people are covering more than one level. Yeah, that makes sense. With AP panel, they had way too many speakers, they were all very interesting but we went way over time with it. So definitely being mindful of the time I think it's a good idea. And hard. How long do you think it's too long for a panel, like an hour 15 minutes is probably as much as an audience in the panel can take correct. Yeah, I think that's probably reasonable. Yeah, I think that's, that's a good amount of time. I think you could have. You could have up to six people though. Okay. I guess along those lines, I know Sarah I didn't get to attend that little AP session. Was it really just like one moderator, and then, and then the panelists and then the moderator just kind of took in questions or how did that work. Yeah, so it actually wasn't a panel it was a variety of folks who did Olympic coverage or Paralympic coverage and they went up and basically told their story. So they all had PowerPoints and they were telling you how to get to that point. And so it was very interesting, but ultimately went over time. But I don't think may have tried to have a panel at the very end but I think I left right at the end of time and they went over after that so that if you're actually doing a panel I think it'd be a little different and probably, I imagine, probably going through and having people kind of tell their story that way with, as opposed to doing the PowerPoint although I thought the PowerPoint was helpful because they had very specific elements in terms of hey if you want to get to, you know, take care of Paralympics new tidbits that I had and how I got there and in some ways kind of stumbled into that position. helpful, and some of them had the very specific tidbits about how to be a classifier for example for the Paralympics and sports so my thing you got pluses and minuses with both but potentially. Yeah, potentially the panel I mean just that kind of asking questions and it being kind of off the cuff. I feel like might be better for time. I agree with Sarah so we just did a recent panel am SSM, we're talking about health equity so we did do PowerPoints ahead of time, which were a part of like the packets for everyone but as far as actual formal stage presentation. It was kind of pseudo like a roundtable we all kind of had questions that we're going to answer when prompted, but it kind of went from a natural flow so someone answer a question about cultural competency, then there'll be two people already waiting that pocket. If it was a question asking about something else and there's two folks already kind of have some responses ready. So a little naturally, however, it was a little more concise. So we all kind of had our script in the back of our head. But it's still flow a little more naturally so that the audience kind of feel like it wasn't just kind of robotic. Did they have PowerPoints that were distributed ahead of time or what. Yeah, I was on that panel. So, we had PowerPoint. So we used to have probably about four or five slides. That was a part of like, you know, the handouts that are given, you know, pre-conference or they can be downloaded in the app. But when we actually were on stage, we all kind of had questions that we thought we're gonna answer. And then there was some kind of questions that everybody kind of overlapped an answer on. I think that's a great idea. I wonder about maybe having like, I don't know, four or five takeaways for each person that they can put up kind of practical tips. Yep, I agree. It worked out well, and then we were able to kind of play off each other. And so it led for even, you know, some other things that we didn't discuss pre-conference that we actually bring to the audience at that time. That does sound good. I think it's a good use of time. Yeah. Clare, do you remember like when the panel started, did each of you at least spend like a minute or two just introducing yourselves first? So Shelly Callender actually introduced all of us. Okay. So that was probably, and there was like a slide that had like our name and like what our coverage was upon our country. And so introduction was probably maybe like three to four minutes at most. And then we just kind of got right into the questions and started going from there. Okay. And last thing, were the questions, were they like, did you guys pull like the upcoming audience beforehand and then have some pre-loaded question, but then also allow the audience to chime in? So that's the one thing we didn't do. That could potentially be a good way to get more audience involved. The only thing is that the panelists wouldn't have the questions ahead of time to make their answers a little more concise. So we kind of come, we came up with questions that we thought the audience would want to know. Hopefully they liked our answers, but it allowed us to kind of say, okay, we're going to have two minutes. Here's our question. It's kind of hard. I guess the question is, when would you get the questions? If you're only getting it like five minutes ahead of time, if you want to try to have a little more rigor to your answers with studies to be able to back it up is a little harder to do. Or you can kind of get some general ones that you think the audience might want to know at each level. So at the resident level, at the fellow level, at the attending level, what is something someone might want to know? And so we can kind of have those answers already kind of prepared for them. Okay. What are y'all's thoughts on maybe like some pre-loaded questions, but then opening up to some audience questions at the end, like last 15 minutes or so. You might even want to do the reverse. So start with the audience questions. If there aren't enough, then go to the pre-loaded just so you have something to talk about in case there aren't enough questions. It's hard to predict the audience, that's why, and what they're going to really be interested in. Like, what if it's all residents or, so you just don't know what to necessarily prepare for. Yeah, I guess one thing is the only reason why I thought maybe the pre-loaded first is to allow the panelists to kind of have their prepped answers. And then once opening up to the audience later, at least we've covered a lot of the topics that we wanted to, but I am definitely open to pre-loaded first or audience first. Yeah, I mean, it probably doesn't matter, honestly. Yeah. And other than that, I think, I mean, I think this sounds like a very interesting thing, something I would listen to. Do you know, I guess in terms, probably the next thing would be like in terms of finding panelists, and I guess, number one, everyone on the call right now has already, is already contributing to the session. So that's very helpful. So who would want to help a little bit more in the future with some of the logistics or just kind of be, or I can just touch base and update any one of you with the logistics of planning the session. I'm happy to help if you need. Yeah, I'm here if you need me, Donald. So, you know, I just want to make sure things go well, so. Yeah. Ditto. I'm here for you, man. Cool, great. There, I wrote your name down for no reason, but. Heather, what's your last name, by the way? Rainey, R-A-I-N-E-Y. R-A-I-N, wait, R-A-I-N-E-Y? Yeah. Can I get your email address? So it's heather.raineymd at gmail.com. Okay, thanks. That's fine. I think I have the other's email addresses. Awesome, and then I guess in terms of brainstorming for panelists, what are y'all's thoughts? I know Carly Day is really prominent in terms of NCAA and college coverage, and she's always pretty dynamic when she's a speaker, from what I've seen. And she would just, she would primarily just, she's like the head doc at Purdue. Yeah, yeah, Carly's at Purdue. If Carly can't do it, I'm glad to do the college and doing that for her, yeah, so. I think there are a number of folks I wonder about doing kind of a mix of people who are really well-known, and maybe some folks who are maybe not quite as well-known, maybe a mix in terms of career. Yeah. Of course, Sherry Blauwet always comes to mind, too. Or AdaptoSports. Mm-hmm, I'm trying to think. You might be able to get that list. Stephanie Tauber, she's a great speaker, no, Stephanie Tauber was on the panel as well. Wonder if she's got a list of those folks who did the Olympic piece. So, Sherry and Stephanie. Yes, maybe I can just, go ahead. I wonder about maybe doing the person who's doing kind of more community, kind of high school and local coverage. Yeah. If maybe they also are a director of a fellowship, and so they can kind of speak to the educational piece of it. I know we'll potentially get other folks like Dr. Fred who also cover, who are fellowship directors, too, but it might be nice to get some more conversation from that side, too. Okay. I don't have a specific person that comes to mind, but I bet we can think of some folks. Okay. I think one of the harder ones would be, does anyone come to mind for someone who is more clinic-based, like without coverage? The only person I can kind of think of is Bodor. I know people, but they're not known throughout the country, and they're people that I'd, that I would like to talk to. Yeah. I mean, I don't know, but they're not known throughout the country, and they're people that I'd, that I was co-residents with. Got it. And they're in, like, strictly private practice. Mark Shortman is outside of Cincinnati. He does a lot of the, like, ultrasound-guided carpal tunnel releases and stuff. Might not be a bad idea, though. Yeah, I was going to say Walter Sussman. He's out in Boston. He pretty much runs a private practice. Used to be Sella. I think he's running on a second partner. He does, like, a lot of ultrasound-guided interventions, Xanax, carpal tunnel release, orthobiologics, from that procedure-based perspective. And you get a private practice element, too. It's not a bad idea. Are the folks that were mentioned who are more private practice, are they involved with AAPM&R? Oh, Sussman I know just submitted, so I'm on the Educational Advisory Committee, so I know he just submitted, like, a case, like, an online case report talking about using Xanax for, like, Hagelin's deformity. So I know he's been involved with AAPM&R from that. I thought he was, like, writing the position statement for, like, PRP and EOA. I know he's been personally involved in that as well. So at least with that one, I know we're taken care of, and I know we all know Carly, so that's Collision. I mean, professional, I mean, obviously you got Ken, I'm about to name a whole bunch of AAPM&R folks, but yeah, you know, we have enough folks from there. And DeLuigi, can't forget about him. Does DeLuigi do mainly adaptive sports, or does he do a lot of professional sports? I know when he was in DC, I know he was taking care of the Nationals, and I thought he was helping take care of the Wizards as well. Okay. Arizona, I know he's on adaptive. I can't, I don't think he's helping with the Diamondbacks, I don't think. I'll see. It does say, like, Mountaineer probably covers the most professional teams of anyone, is that correct? Yeah, he's got Hawks and Braves, he takes care of Lee Kinnear, he takes care of the Braves. Okay. And he also, I think he's also one of the covering docs for the Falcons as well. I think Lee Kinnear might actually be a good one for that. I think he's a good speaker for this sort of thing too. I think that's a good thought. And he's an interesting story, because before he started fellowship, he was in private practice, I believe, for a couple of years and then came back and did a Sportsmaster Fellowship. Oh, wow. I think that's a great idea. I would ask Stuart Willick for the Paralympic. Okay. That name sounds so familiar. It is, you know, I've been doing this a long time at quite a high level with the U.S. Paralympic Committee. Oh, I do remember him now. I think he was speaking at, I went to that USOPC meeting and he was there, and he was really good. Yeah, he doesn't typically go to the AAPMNR meeting, but it's worth inviting him. And then, so we have, I guess just still no one kind of pops to the mind for community-based, just kind of through there. Dio is, I know he's probably really busy, but doesn't Zaremski mainly do like high school stuff or does he do collegiate stuff as well? I don't think he does any college. I think he may cover the UF baseball, but at the same time, I think he does, he does tons of community coverage. I think he might be a good person. I certainly think he's a good person to speak. And I bet he'd be willing to do it. And if he's busy, depending on what day, I can pitch in as well. So I take care of several high schools, like in South Fulton part of Atlanta, small spots as well. So it's kind of an interesting mix between where I am at Grady, where it's a little bit more community-based safety net, and on Emory side where you guys are more familiar with. So you need somebody to pitch in, I'm happy to help out. Perfect, yeah. I think that's actually a good idea, Cleo, too, and adding kind of the socioeconomic diversity piece of it, too. Oh, that's true, yeah. Cleo, if you're- So what, we'll just do a whole Emory panel? Yeah, I was avoiding putting my name in the hat. I was like, ah, this is gonna look very biased at the moment, it's gonna look very biased. No, I'm totally agree with Cleo. I think it sounds like a great idea. I actually think it's a great idea. I don't think it's biased, and I don't mind going ahead and putting you, since you're on this call anyways. Then we'll probably, for the professional level, we'll think twice about it, because I agree, I don't want someone to say, like, it's an all Emory panel. I think it'll probably be easier to find other pros, people covering pros, but I think Cleo's a solid choice. Cool, awesome. And then, like, for, so for collegiate, we had mentioned Carly and Dr. Fred. You guys know anyone who, like, does collegiate stuff, but isn't, like, just pure Division I? So another name that I know you guys might know his name is Ricardo Colberg. He's in Birmingham I know he used to take care of Jacksonville State, which is like FCS. I don't know he still takes care of them, he's a psychiatrist he's private practice. And it's Puerto Rican, where it works in Birmingham, so it's kind of interesting mix. He's a little more lower level, trying to think I find somebody else that comes to mind I'll let you know. As far as not large P five level schools. I guess one nice thing is kind of for fellowship so like does because we had mentioned Carly first but I know like Dr. Fred for example at Stanford. There's also like Menlo College, and, you know, previously Notre Dame day more, I think I said that right. So like, usually, Dr. Fred does have different levels a covers. Do you know we also do to the junior colleges now to, as well as high school so. Yeah. Yeah, I almost wonder, it makes me lean that direction. I'll definitely think about but that may be able to kill multiple, multiple birds with one stone. Yeah, because I'm just trying to start to condense the the panel so that we don't meet the over, over five or six people. I think Kelly McGinnis does I or Joanne does Wellesley College. But again that's that's college but that's a smaller college, if that makes a difference but do they also does Kelly also do the Red Sox. I think she helps out with them. Yes. I don't think she's the head team physician now. Got it. Okay. And then, I guess for Olympics and Paralympics, we mentioned Stuart Willett. Any thoughts on fin off. Well, you know, everybody everybody always goes to john for that and he's great. So, I mean certainly would be a good option. Stu, I think is, you know, he was the chief medical officer for the Salt Lake Olympics played a big role in Tokyo. So he's just another good option to. Okay. I'm going to give her one over the other. I may just flip a coin then. See, so I think we've kind of gone through every level and had at least some good brainstorming so so far for community base. I think we'll go with Cleo. And then for collegiate, it'll be either Carly Dr. Fred Ricardo Kohlberg was thrown out there for like some of the lower level schools and then Kelly, Kelly McInnis from Boston were thrown out, and then for Olympic slash Paralympic. And then for pro we mentioned Mountaineer and Kinnear. Are there any other names we may be able to bring out for pro that is not is not from memory. I don't know. I don't know if she's doing much pro work right now but Malita more who's in DC she had worked some pro in the past. How do you spell Malita me l i t a more mo re. Yeah. Okay. I was going to mention you can throw daily G as an option on there as well. Okay. He's still covering pros out where he is. Got it. Do you know if herring still recovers the Seahawks. Maybe. Think so. No, he retired from. I'll brainstorm a little bit more I mean we don't we, I certainly haven't eliminated Kinnear, so we can keep him on the list. And how is Kinnear spelled K N E E R, or is there another letter in there. Okay. And then for MSK clinic base. I think Mark Shortman came up Walter Sussman and then Bodor. And then for adaptive sports. Sherry blow it and Stephanie towel were brought up, but I guess if you know Stewart Stewart involved very much in Paralympic stuff or is he all mainly Olympics. He's all Paralympic. He's all Paralympic. Okay, so he. Yes, so Stewart says okay then we don't need other adaptive sport. Okay. Stephanie, Stephanie Tao, I thought, did a good job and she does some Paralympic coverage. And then she's also a classifier, which I thought was interesting to talk about. I'll keep. Yeah, I'll keep. And she's more on the junior side too, which I, like I said, I think it'd be kind of nice to mix it up a little bit. So some folks that are junior mid and kind of senior in career. Okay. I definitely keep her there. Yeah. I know she's, she's currently like the Paralympic swimming head team doc and then, yeah, I know her very well. So, okay, we'll, we'll keep that on. So I think we have a pretty good list in terms of each level. So many next steps I will, you know, I'll kind of, I'll kind of mull over some of this and then make a list of it. And that way, you know, in, I think probably this weekend I'll send like an email to the four of y'all. Oh, see another name, Washington Wizards, nice. So I'll send an email to all four of y'all, summarizing the ideas of what this panel could be. And then also the list of potential people for each. And then I think over time, we still got a lot of time, but I'm trying to narrow down and choosing the panelists. I know this open discussion is always great, but sometimes it can be awkward when choosing certain people. So if you want, if you have any thoughts that you would like to just like email, reply back to me and without including everyone, I'm perfectly happy with that. And I'll take all that into consideration when making choices. And if there are any other names that pop up in your mind for any of these, any of the panels, then I'll definitely, then I'll definitely take that into account as well. In terms of the moderator, I think by default, I'll probably end up doing it, but if any of y'all want to do it, just let me know and we can talk. I'm not sure if I'm the most seasoned moderator at this time, but so, does anyone have any other questions or comments? Cool. Well, you know, we get 30 minutes back in our lives. Thanks so much for, you know, for y'all to join and all the input that y'all have given. It's definitely really helpful and hopefully we'll have a successful education session as well as, you know, look out for the in-person networking session for during the assembly as well. Okay. Cool. Well, all y'all have a good night. Thanks for organizing. Good to see you. Good seeing you.

education proposal

panel of physicians

career paths in sports medicine

panel discussion format

panelists

potential panelists

moderator role